FertilityNaturopath.com Forum: vitex and miscarriage

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   Hi, I really hope you can give me some advice.
I attended a womens health conference back in April for women over 40. At that stage I had been TTC for just over a year (began Jan 05) with only one pg which ended in m/c at 6 wks Nov 1st 05. At this stage I was still breastfeeding my son who was born Sept 14 04.
I spoke with the naturopath after the talks were over and filled her in on my situation.
Her advice was to take 2 Blackmores Vitex of a morning and to continue it through to 12 wks of pg.
After that I had two more early m/c at between 5-6 wks and a chem pg.
I weaned my son in August when I was about 2DPO for that cycle and I ended up with a positive test but sadly m/c again at 11w 3d with a D&C this time. We had a scan at 7 wks which showed a baby measuring a few days ahead with a healthy heartbeat. I had been taking the vitex but as my OB was unsure about it I decreased the dosage until I stopped at 8 weeks.
After the m/c D&C I took 2 raspberry leaf tablets a day,  2 vitex and the usual dose of 5mg folic acid.
I got pregnant straight away much to our surprise. I stopped the raspberry leaf at 5 wks but continued on this time with the vitex and folic acid. 
We had a scan at 5w 6d with a measurement of 5w4d but a good heartbeat. My next scan t 7 wks showed no heartbeat and lots of bleeding blocked by the sac over the cervix so I had to have a D&C that day, December 1. I had had spotting since about the day of implantation whcih was early at 4DPO. Scans showed no reason for the bleeding. The 7 wks scan shwoed the sac had been dislodged from the uterine wall by the amount of bleeding above it. My OB said it it was alter prgnancy it would be termed a placental abruption. He still said it was due to low progesterone causing bleeidng and the low progesterone was natrually caused by an unviable chromosne problem pregnancy due to age. 
Beats me how come this all started when up til now I have had no problems with m/c.

So that brings me now
My OB wants us to wait and see him at 6 wks as he has sent the POC for chromosone tesing and this time is going to run some blood tests.

Do I continue with the vitex? If I get pg again do I take it while p or this itme see what happens without it? My GPs and OB all refuse to do progeterone testing as their argument is low progesterone is the natural result of a chromosnally poor baby which should m/c natrually.
I have heard of taking low dose asprin but I prefer natural menas so I would prefer to take Natural Vitamin E instead.. woudl that work the same way?
Can I take them now or will they mask the blood tests my OB wants to do which I gather is clotting, antibodies etc. Mind you he keeps on telling me all my m/c are just due to poor quality eggs due to age and causing chromosone problems.

I intend to wait until my next period but then TTC again which may be about the time I see my OB again on Janaury 18. 

Any advice or hints or anything would be very much appreciated.

Thank you for reading and I hope I make sense.
thanks
Judy

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angelicdragon Regular Joined: 07 December 2006 Online Status: Offline Posts: 17	Topic: vitex and miscarriage Posted: 07 December 2006 at 3:31pm
	Hi, I really hope you can give me some advice. I attended a womens health conference back in April for women over 40. At that stage I had been TTC for just over a year (began Jan 05) with only one pg which ended in m/c at 6 wks Nov 1st 05. At this stage I was still breastfeeding my son who was born Sept 14 04. I spoke with the naturopath after the talks were over and filled her in on my situation. Her advice was to take 2 Blackmores Vitex of a morning and to continue it through to 12 wks of pg. After that I had two more early m/c at between 5-6 wks and a chem pg. I weaned my son in August when I was about 2DPO for that cycle and I ended up with a positive test but sadly m/c again at 11w 3d with a D&C this time. We had a scan at 7 wks which showed a baby measuring a few days ahead with a healthy heartbeat. I had been taking the vitex but as my OB was unsure about it I decreased the dosage until I stopped at 8 weeks. After the m/c D&C I took 2 raspberry leaf tablets a day, 2 vitex and the usual dose of 5mg folic acid. I got pregnant straight away much to our surprise. I stopped the raspberry leaf at 5 wks but continued on this time with the vitex and folic acid. We had a scan at 5w 6d with a measurement of 5w4d but a good heartbeat. My next scan t 7 wks showed no heartbeat and lots of bleeding blocked by the sac over the cervix so I had to have a D&C that day, December 1. I had had spotting since about the day of implantation whcih was early at 4DPO. Scans showed no reason for the bleeding. The 7 wks scan shwoed the sac had been dislodged from the uterine wall by the amount of bleeding above it. My OB said it it was alter prgnancy it would be termed a placental abruption. He still said it was due to low progesterone causing bleeidng and the low progesterone was natrually caused by an unviable chromosne problem pregnancy due to age. Beats me how come this all started when up til now I have had no problems with m/c. So that brings me now My OB wants us to wait and see him at 6 wks as he has sent the POC for chromosone tesing and this time is going to run some blood tests. Do I continue with the vitex? If I get pg again do I take it while p or this itme see what happens without it? My GPs and OB all refuse to do progeterone testing as their argument is low progesterone is the natural result of a chromosnally poor baby which should m/c natrually. I have heard of taking low dose asprin but I prefer natural menas so I would prefer to take Natural Vitamin E instead.. woudl that work the same way? Can I take them now or will they mask the blood tests my OB wants to do which I gather is clotting, antibodies etc. Mind you he keeps on telling me all my m/c are just due to poor quality eggs due to age and causing chromosone problems. I intend to wait until my next period but then TTC again which may be about the time I see my OB again on Janaury 18. Any advice or hints or anything would be very much appreciated. Thank you for reading and I hope I make sense. thanks Judy
	Judy 46 DH 49 DS 25, 17, 5 and Daniel 1& DD 18. 2 DGS Alex 2/9/08 and Zavier 4/3/10 m/c Angels = 11. Stillborn = 1
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Naturopath Administrator Clarissa - Adv Dip App Sc Naturopathy Joined: 29 March 2005 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1817	Posted: 17 December 2006 at 1:03pm
	Hi Judy, I did answer another similar post from you a few days aga but must have missed this one. Sorry for the delay in reply and sorry to hear of all your losses and troubles TTC. I do remember speaking to your about yours and your hubbys age for a good sperm count, even mens sperm start to change in quality as they age and lifestyle and diet play a major part in this process so it's avery individual thing for a man whether or not his sperm count will be affected and not based purely on age like a womans eggs are. You being 42 is a considerable factor for your recurrent m/c's which may not only be casued by hormone changes but also chromosomal abnormalities in your eggs as they start to age, whicih are the main causes of m/c in the first trimester. I still think from your breif history and known medical facts about aging and egg quality/fetility levels that this is the main reason for your m/c's. As your hormones change drastically around 35 and even more so after 40, naturally women are not meant to bear children that late for their own health's sake. This is the body's naturally protecting itself from the stress of pregnancy which takes a considerable toll on a young woman but could be fatal for a woman over 40. Your hormones may also be changing as a natural progression towards menopause, I'm not saying you are going thru menopause yet but there are many hormonal and physical changes that start in your forties and for some women much earlier before menopause actually happens. Cycle irregularities caused by hormonal changes vaginal secretions changes, moods etc all are signs that your child bearing years may be comming to a close. Having addressed the basic possible reasons for you being unable to sustain a pregnancy at your age. Lets discuss the herbs you have been taking, Vitex is NOT recommended in pregnancy no matter what your age. You can take vitex thru your whole cycle if you have major homronal issues such as constant low progesterone production (again this is your bodys way of preventing pregnancy at your age, by preventing a succesful implantation) Raspberry leaf is NOT reccommended in the first or second trimesters of pregnancy but may be used in the later stages of the third trimester as a uterine tonic to aid in succesful and potent uterine contractions. It may cause m/c iif used earlier by stimulating the uterine muscles which may caused the implantion to dislodge and the cervix to even start opening both result in a m/c. So to reiterate both Vitex and (raspberry leaf only is to be used in late third trimester is acceptable) should not be used in pregnancy and should be ceased as soon as pregnancy is confirmed. There are safe herbs such as False unicorn root whcih you can use pregnancy to promote progesterone production or more so regulate oestrogen production so it does not overpower the progesterone which is the more important hormone to sustain an early pregnancy before the placenta is fully functional. Now lets move onto progesterone and the great debate on whether it is the cause of m/c or a sign of the natural m/c process, I'm afraid the jury is still out on this one and it is upto personal opinion, In America and some parts of europe I have heard the doctors are quite for progesteroen supplementation in early pregnancy to try and help rpevent m/c. English and Australian doctors mostly have the veiw that prgesteroen decrease is a symptom of a natural m/c and no amount of supplents will stop a m/c. Hence the only form of progesteroen you will be able to get in Australia would be a natural herbal progesterone cream which can be applied daily and herbs sucha s False unicorn root which are considered safe during pregnancy. The reason why these are available is because they do not directkly introduce progesterone into the body but merly promote your body to make more or regulate oestrogen production. This way your body is still in control adn this si the way all herbs help your body not take over the production of hormones in your body. I would wait until you get your blood tests done to determine if you actually have a blood clotting problem or any other problem that may be causing your recurrant m/c's also wait for the testing on the POC to see if there are chromosomal abnormalities they can detect before you take anymore supplements such as vit E to help thin your blood and or before you start TTC again. I think you should take this time to recooperate and let your body heal over the next 6 weeks or so before TTC and maybe putting yourself thru more pain and anguish over another m/c. I know that time is very precious to you due to your age but I think you need some answers from your tests which may shed some light on what you need to do next to try and have a healthy bub. I do wish you all the best in TTC again and hope you get the answers you are looking for from your blood tests. stay positive in the meantime. I'm sorry about the long post but I thought it was important to address all your questions openly and honesty to the best of my abilities as a naturopath. I hope I havnt been to straight forward but I aim to be truthful and infomative to give you the best advice.

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